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Daily Harold
By Harold Henderson, the World's First Blogger* | RSS | Archive | Search

by Harold Henderson on April 17th 2007 - 7:04 a.m.

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Hemant Mehta, the "friendly atheist" in his blog and this week's Reader, is congenial by temperament, heritage, and strategy. (He's speaking tonight at the Barbara's near UIC.) But that attitude also reflects his confidence that extreme fundamentalism will die out soon, and that supernatural belief will too, eventually.

Is this confidence justified? He says kids these days are too well-educated to fall for religious hoo-ha. The Pew Center has some evidence in that direction: of those born before 1946, 5 percent call themselves agnostic, atheist, or nonreligious. That percentage increases to 11 among those born 1946-64, 14 among those born 1965-76, and 19 among Mehta's generation, born since 1977.

But at this rate it will be a couple of centuries before believers are the same-size minority atheists are today. And trends of this sort have been reversed in the past. 


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Paul Botts
April 17th - 11:13 a.m.
"But at this rate it will be a couple of centuries before believers are the same-size minority atheists are today."

Actually decades, not centuries -- that's a rather steep rate of social change. Basically a doubling in a single generation and then another doubling over the course of two more generations. Projecting the same function forward would give us something like 35% atheists in the generation born starting around 10 years from today, and nonbelievers as a majority in the generation that's born starting maybe 2040.

Doubling is a powerful multiplier no matter what base you start from, like the old parlor trick about trying to fold a sheet of paper in half more than a few times.
John Powers
April 17th - 11:56 a.m.
Applying higher than junior high arithmetic to such trends might show that religious patterns are more of a sinusoidal wave rather than straight line trend.

Something as common as another Billy Graham Crusade, or an ecunemical agreement between Catholics and Lutherans would press trends in the opposite direction, much as has happened throughout Christian History.

JBP
Paul Botts
April 17th - 1:29 p.m.
Heh. There's no chance of that trend reversing in this society, but feel free to keep dreaming.
John Powers
April 17th - 2:19 p.m.
Paul,

You could have written that in Ireland 1802, Mexico in 1936 etc (when conditions were much less favorable, Church attendance lower, number of clergy relatively smaller) for a religious revival than today.

JBP
Harold
April 17th - 6:29 p.m.
I think John has the better of this argument, much as I wish it were otherwise.
decency
April 18th - 4:08 p.m.
Harold, why do you wish it was otherwise?
Harold
April 19th - 7:33 a.m.
decency, I am agnostic on the question of whether "religion" has been a net positive or negative force in human history -- mainly because I don't really see how to adduce evidence on either side of the claim. But I am reasonably sure that both religious people and secularists will be more respectful and responsible if their opposite numbers are readily available to provide a reality check, and can't be ignored or derided with impunity. I've contended quixotically here in the past that the capitalist impulse needs to compete with the socialist impulse in public policy to get good results (because neither is an absolute good), I rudimentarily think the same about supernatural belief and the lack thereof. I'm sure you'll notify me if this doesn't make sense, and especially if you know how to answer the historical question.
decency
April 20th - 9:59 a.m.
Okay, thanks Harold. To, hopefully, paraphrase your position, a religious revival or an atheistic revival is an unbalancing of the golden mean of supernatural agnosticism in matters of public policy and debate. Fair? If so, you and Richard Neuhaus should get together and backslap about your shared dream for the public sphere. =) As for me, I’ll stick with good ol’ fashioned hymns and Gadamerian inspired religious apologetics.

As to the historical question, of course, I can’t provide nor do I believe one could create an objective metric to measure the pros and cons of theism and atheism in human history. What purpose would this serve anyway? It certainly wouldn’t have any necessary connection to whether the supernatural is a metaphysical reality or not. In other words, suppose someone does comes up with this measure and shows conclusively that religion has caused more harm than good. While that’s not exactly a gold star for religion, it doesn’t have any necessary connection to whether or not religion taps into a supernatural reality.

I enjoy your blog and will try to check it more often.
John Powers
April 20th - 10:20 p.m.
D,

To quote the father of Waugh's Guy Crouchback, God's love is not quantitative.

JBP
Harold
April 21st - 7:37 a.m.
decency, ya really know how to hurt a guy! I'll make that appointment with Neuhaus right away ;-)~~

I would like to think that everyone agreed that the question of the truth of supernatural beliefs is an entirely separate question from the question of whether they've been a net positive for humanity or not. But they're both interesting and people keep trying to answer them both anyway. I find it perplexing that the second question seems all but unanswerable, yet it has the look and feel of a straightforward empirical question -- whereas from my point of view the first question is easily answered in the negative, while it has the look and feel of a hopelessly unanswerable one!



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