Reader Info
Advertising, subscriptions, staff, privacy policy, contact info, freelancers' guidelines, etc.




On Film
The Reader's movie blog | RSS | Archive | Search


Sound like anything you've seen lately?:

"An ice-pack of a movie, a masterpiece in every insignificant detail ... [that] suppresses most of the active elements that make movies pleasurable. The film says that people are disgusting but things are lovely. ... It's a coffee-table movie ... like a three-hour slide show for art history majors."

A lot of the complaints about There Will Be Blood (and there've been more than a few) strike these kinds of disenchanted notes: "a thudding bore," "tempered and wrought, to the point of dullness ... its very scale almost obscures its blankness," or in general simply wondering "what's the point of it all?"—though in fact the passage I've quoted is from Pauline Kael's notorious pan of Stanley Kubrick's Barry Lyndon, one of the "100 best films of all time" if you believe what the critics tell you. Is it too great a stretch to argue that what's problematic in both films comes to almost the same thing? Since both adapt generally forgotten period novels that demand a sympathetic jump: the issues of the characters aren't exactly ours, and even when they are we talk about them differently, in terms already conditioned by the history of the discourse. Which is partly why Upton Sinclair's moralizing harangue, against vampire capital and religious quackery, comes across as obvious and dated: who's exercised about this anymore, or in quite this way? It's ground we've all been over a thousand times before. But of course the characters haven't, and for them the issues have an urgency we can't begin to match. Here's what it's like when the idea gusher's raging, when concepts old and hoary seem fresh and alive, still eminently arguable. They have to care because we no longer can.

And maybe we're not supposed to. Aristocracy's a problem in Barry Lyndon's world, less so in our own—even if our democratically "classless" class divisions tend to create similar kinds of hierarchy, more economic than hereditary, more under the surface than on it. So both of these films walk a conceptual tightrope, half in the mentalite, half out, which arguably accounts for their seeming distant and cold, dramatically estranged. But what if instead we see Blood as ... well, an experiment—doesn't that sound like the P.T. Anderson we know? Not so much an invitation to engage as a kind of excavation, to uncover obsolete layers of thinking and responding. It's a double game being played—that implicates our own received opinions—or even several games at once. But maybe I'm making too much of a minor point ...

Also, in a free associating mood, there's that (obvious?) connection to Erich von Stroheim's Greed, which goes considerably beyond the shared avaricious theme. Not since 1987's Shy People, Andrei Konchalovsky's Daily Bread/Tol'able David excursion into the Louisiana swamps, has there been anything so Stroheim-like, in the packed-in naturalism, the classically distanced shooting, the ways scenes develop through gradually emerging detail. But already enough critics have picked up on this, and there's not a lot left to add. Time to stop being redundant ...


Images:


 
Comments
(please read our policy)
ZS
January 31st - 1:37 p.m.
Perhaps it because Barry Lyndon is one of my favorite films, but I don’t see a lot in common between it and There Will Be Blood. Forget reacting to Kael and her misunderstanding of late Kubrick…. I think There Will Be Blood is the far more conventional of the two films. Barry is a passive character who drifts through history, achieves some success through luck before his inevitable collapse. There Will Be Blood is essentially a conventional epic where a character succeeds by exerting his will. Indeed Barry Lyndon has a lot to say about how we understand history through images, how individual wills are destroyed by history, and indeed much more. The sense I got from There Will Be Blood is that oil men and preachers are both hypocrites.
pat g.
January 31st - 3:47 p.m.
ZS--i've probably pushed the analogy a bit, but there's a point to my doing so: e.g., the comment on "oil men and preachers [being] hypocrites"--that's upton sinclair's point of view, not (my argument) the film's or the director's * because p.t. anderson obviously knows better: the example of PUNCH-DRUNK LOVE--its keen appreciation for motivational shades, for ambiguities of behavior, etc--should tell you as much * so it's not HIS voice being channeled but something else, less implicating, a kind of observer's detachment--from characters, source material, the author's original intent, etc * how MUCH detachment or distance there is seems open to debate, but the one thing we're NOT getting is transparency
pat g.
January 31st - 4:10 p.m.
or "negative capability" as they'd call it in english lit--best get out the measuring spoon for determining how much ...
ZS
January 31st - 8:19 p.m.
You may be looking for something that is not there. I mean I did like Punch Drunk Love better than There Will Be Blood, but I am not really sure what makes you think PTA “knows better.” Magnolia or Boogie Nights are hardly subtle films in terms of their characterizations. If anything, Punch Drunk Love is an usual film for PTA and, to me at least, There Will Blood returns him to that earlier grandiosity instead of the sense of subtly in Punch Drunk Love.
pat g.
January 31st - 8:55 p.m.
ZS--but: you don't LOSE capabilities you've demonstrated an understanding for, and if they're subsequently absent from your films (assuming you've "creative control," whatever that implies) ... what? * a matter of stylization, of a deliberate intent: you know the differences, you know what they do for you connotatively--which is the only point i'm making here
toshi yano
February 1st - 12:27 a.m.
I'm a bit out of the There Will Be Blood criticism loop - didn't know the film was considered a bore... I must've seen a different movie: a great Anderson excursion, Day-Lewis' best by far. I do think the distancing in Barry Lyndon is different: the narrator - so sarcastic as he does his duty, taking so much pleasure in Lyndon's misfortunes - pulls us into the story while pushing us away from our protaganist (though that's not the right word for Lyndon). There WIll Be Blood seems to do the opposite - Day-Lewis is magnetic, strange - his character is, too; from what I can gather from the criticism you've mentioned, it's the film he moves through - the story (and thus our narrator, Anderson) - that's the problem: i.e., there is no story to be pulled into, only Day-Lewis' performance. I think that's mistaken, but there's no defending the film against people who won't attempt to think it through. My take is this is Anderson's political film - an archaeology of the contemporary Republican dilemma.
Recktal Brown
February 1st - 1:58 a.m.
Well, I can't stand PTA so I'll stay out of that fray but let me quote:

"ZS--but: you don't LOSE capabilities you've demonstrated an understanding for, and if they're subsequently absent from your films (assuming you've "creative control," whatever that implies) ... what?"

Well, no. People DO lose capabilities they've demonstrated an understanding for. Perhaps it isn't something you'd deem an ok analogy but look at any number of comediens who lose their ability to be funny. Chevy Chase, what the hell? Man used to be brilliant and now? a hack tride and true. You don't think Bernardo Bertolluci has lost some of his capabilities? I'd argue he lost them much earlier than others might (putting this moment in the early-mid 70's while others might grant him more time but...)the point is his movies have been utterly horrible for a long time, The Dreamers being the greatest example, quite simply in this blokes opinion one of the worst movies I've ever seen, given its only interest entirely by the titilation of a beautiful Eva Green, but the point is tell me Bertolluci didn't lose capabilities he once had...I'll be glad to come up with some other examples if its desired, in literature, painting or wherever, but to say because once had some capabilities they maintain them forever seems to be a foolish view of the human mind.
J.R. Jones
February 1st - 9:06 a.m.
A little perspective, please: THE LAST EMPEROR, BESIEGED, and yes, even LITTLE BUDDHA, STEALING BEAUTY, and THE DREAMERS are better than 99% of what's out there.

On Pat's point, I would argue that most artists become increasingly more skilled even as they run out of ideas they're passionate about. So the end of a career tends to become a search for other material that the artist can connect with, generally to lesser effect. Bertolucci seems like a pretty good example of that, though of course some of his earlier things were adapted from other sources as well.
pat g.
February 1st - 11:12 a.m.
RECKTAL--most of your examples are about loss of INTEREST, not capability: sometimes it's simply too wearing to keep the level of performance up ... or as JRJ suggests, you become bored (helas!) with the available options * but nobody's suggesting that anderson's just coasting here or that BLOOD is the work of an opportunistic hack: quite the opposite, there's a lot of investment, and it shows * but my idea of EXPERIMENT (echoed by JRJ's comment), that anderson's not a filmmaker who keeps returning to the same "creative" well, could account for some of the critical adversity: yes, you're right, it's not doing x and y ... because it doesn't INTEND to, a matter of deliberate CHOICES, not deficits * of course there are plenty of bum choices, real dead-enders, etc, as well as "good" or fruitful ones--it's all part of the experimental package--and you can debate forever which kind this film represents * what's clear though is the level of intentional daring and investment, and conscious stylization--additions and subtractions that depart from a straightforward empathic/identification model--is the key
Recktal Brown
February 1st - 11:48 a.m.
Well, we will have to disagree about Bertolucci on that point. I would say _Stealing Beauty_ and _The Dreamers_ are certainly not better than the 99% (and 99 is a large amount, really those films are that good?), they both seem trite and out of touch to an obscene degree and I would even offer the filmmaking is not particularly good (all that awful adolescent poetry imposed on the screen for one) but there's no accounting for taste. So maybe Bertolucci isn't an example we can agree on but even as an example I just find it hard to say, from the location of my perspective, that there isn't only a decline in the intelligence of ideas but that his filmmaking as a whole has suffered greatly.

As per artists becoming more skilled with time, well, yes there is often a learning and honing of technical craft, though not as often as you may claim, there are those who seem to lose their way, re. Pat's claim it doesn't appear to me as obvious that once you've shown a skill you never lose it, importantly skills and ideas and thought do change over time and they are in a relationship with each other, so while one may finetune a technique if ideas become muddied or foolish it doesn't matter much. The claiming of the permanance of skills, capabilities or insights seems a bizarre one to me.
Kifah
February 1st - 3:49 p.m.
A thudding bore? you bet your ass. P.T Anderson is one of the biggest scam artists in American movie history and I find it interesting that you would go to such lengths to contest the criticisms of a few against what is one of the unanimously praised pictures of recent memory.

Anderson's problem is that he has not even a basic understanding of the human condition or human drama. In order to bypass this he simply exaggerates. Notice how in Magnolia nothing actually HAPPENS to the characters really.The dramatic effect is achieved through overcooking the results of dramatic tension rather than examining dramatic tension (look at the plot similarities between Magnolia and Short Cuts and tell me who's understanding of humanity is more sophisticated).

There will be Blood is no exception. The characters are completely static. Daniel Day Lewis is doing a rehash of Bill The Butcher with Walter Houston's accent and we're supposed to drool. After you strip away all the artifice of the films style, whats driving Plainview is simple, boring misanthropy. The movie is vague enough where you can "hang all your old metaphors on it" as Pauline Kael once said about Days of Heaven (I don't agree with that assessment but that description is useful here). There are plenty of "pretty" images in the film but I couldn't count a single beautiful one, simply because true cinematic beauty comes with understanding of character and drama which he continues to lack.
pat g.
February 1st - 4:07 p.m.
KIFAH--x "understands the human condition" better than y ... is this a new contest or something?
Jim
February 1st - 4:45 p.m.
Come on pat, you know thats a cop out and an avoidance. Don't make bold claims and expect people to not respond boldly and then knitpick responses without engaging.
pat g.
February 1st - 6:33 p.m.
JIM--already set the terms of my engagement in the post; it's KIFAH who's avoiding those! ... can't really address his concerns, since, in relation to what i'm finding valuable or interesting/intriguing in BLOOD, they're either irrelevant or not that consequential: e.g., "nothing actually HAPPENS to the characters"--i might agree completely (in fact, i hadn't much thought about it) and still not consider it a problem * so for all i know, he could be "right" ... but there are other ways of being right too

as for "beauty," "the human condition," and the rest of that infinitely elastic/ambiguous et cetera (meaning whatever you want 'em to mean, yes?): who's all of a sudden the official referee? ... like, c'mon, gimme a break!
Kifah Foutah
February 1st - 6:40 p.m.
Oh please, I was pointing out why His films are inadequate compared to the movies that he xeroxes his plot points from. I find it hard to believe anyone would argue that this film is anymore than a Character driven drama and at that I think it fails on a massive level. If it wasn't intended that way, then why the plundering from Giant, Greed, Days of Heaven, Citizen Kane, Maccabe and Mrs. Miller and in a backhanded way Gangs of New York?

His characters don't bend at all and they are dull, dull, dull. They are dull because Anderson makes no attempt to fully understand them at all. They are kept at arms length the whole time and instead of being explored he lets the movie operate in a way that the audience is supposed to identify the would be archetypes that the characters represent and he assumes that in and of itself is the films "meaning". The film is so vague that any general interpretation of the American spirit seen through the lens of capitalism or religion will do, and this is the basis for quality that all the reviews Ive read have relied upon.

If you want to walk into the theatre, identify these archetypes immediately, proclaim the movie great for being a fantastic exploration of the American Temper or some borrowed quip worthy of a hack like David Denby, then give yourself a big pat on the back for being so goddamn smart then the movie makes it, really, really, really easy for you. Its easy because his images contain no content. You really can just hang all of your old metaphors on it.

Experimental? If I want something experimental Ill go to the Anger's, Mekas's and the Brakhage's not the Anderson's (P.T or Wes). This guy is already being "compared" to Welles and Griffith (Just like he was "compared" to Altman and Scorsese, how is it that you can steal entire scenes, shots and story lines from films of recent memory verbatim,and then be "compared" to the people you're stealing from?), he doesn't need to be mentioned in the same breath as "experimental", especially when there are Kiarostami's and Hou's and even Van Sant's in the narrative film world.

To clarify, Mr. Graham; If a Filmmaker steals outright from some of the greatest dramatists of your respective medium and fails to incorporate, expand upon, critique or "experiment"(as if), the very thing that makes those borrowed dramatic elements resonant in the first place (I.E HUMAN UNDERSTANDING), then that filmmaker is a hack and I have the right to point it out.

It's hard enough being a college student and having to hear about this movie non-stop from everyone imaginable, and then have to come here, my personal filmic sanctuary and then have to read some sideways defense of a film that I think about 5 people officially dislike in the first place.
Kifah Foutah
February 1st - 6:44 p.m.
*his respective medium, I also missed some commas and used the same rhetorical style in two sentences in a row, Apologies. I wrote that too quick. But I also take nothing back. Have at me.
Kifah
February 1st - 7:01 p.m.
You responded before I did, so Id like to say that my opinions we're not initially criticisms of you're assessment of the film, but now they certainly are. I find the film incredibly bland to look at and most of it quite gruesome (especially the way he films close ups of faces). I never appointed myself the official "referee" of the meaning of "human understanding" anymore than you did with the meaning of "experimental" and I also never claimed to have the "right" opinion anymore than you did. Instead of attacking my opinions you've decided to attack me personally. Very Well.

So now that I am attacking your position officially, please elaborate. How on earth is this film "experimental"?..."Like, c'mon, gimmie a break!"
pat g.
February 1st - 8:50 p.m.
KIFAH--apologies if my earlier reply seemed heated ...

"experimental?"--go back to what i said in the original post, about excavation rather than engagement (incidentally, off the top of my head, the best example of this i know of isn't BARRY LYNDON but rivette's JOAN THE MAID, where characters argue the ins and outs of catholic dogma as if it were the latest thing in intellectual fashion; utterly fascinating, also completely alienating--it's THAT kind of mentalite experiment i'm thinking of * and even if anderson's a minor leaguer at it vis-a-vis rivette, who else is doing it at all?) * "bland"?--i don't know what you mean ... what i see are scenes evolving incrementally with every camera shift, as a matter of continuing exposure * nothing's taken for granted, which is why the shots work as they do * "beautiful"?--again i wouldn't know, and i'm not sure it makes any difference: e.g., scene of erupting gusher, vertical slash down the center of the screen, so narrow it's almost pure geometry (i expect that took some doing); yes, an archetype of sorts, without saying what sort exactly--since definition kills and what we have left then is a specimen under glass--framed by the surrounding miasma; then suddenly--poof!--extinction, and EVERYTHING turns black, like d. day-lewis's reinforcing prince of darkness outfit * you want literal meaning, i give you theater ... but "bland" or "boring"? * sorry, no way ...

also plz note that i've never called the film a "masterpiece" or anything remotely evaluative, only that i find proofs of invested consciousness throughout, which in itself is extremely rare--the rest, i'm sorry, is your projection ...

if necessary i'll get back to these things next week, but unfortunately tonight there's no more time ...
Kifah
February 2nd - 1:34 a.m.
Apology accepted...no hard feelings, I appreciate your posts and enjoy reading them even when (like times like these) I disagree. Now if I could weigh your points.

"Rivette's JOAN THE MAID, where characters argue the ins and outs of catholic dogma as if it were the latest thing in intellectual fashion" I'll give you the film expert points for that example (and I mean that sincerely), but at the same time I'd challenge you to name a single scene in There Will Be Blood where something directly comparable to that actually happens. I appreciate the thought, but I think you're reaching here.

I also appreciate your given description of that particular scene, but at the same time Anderson's use of the cinematic language here did absolutely nothing for me not because it wasn't edited or shot effectively, but because I wasn't convinced, for a single moment that any of those scenes amounted to thoughtful content. And this is what I'm pointing at. Anderson's cinematographic consciousness may have been working but I don't think it amounts to being anything substantial because I find his topic and characters to be dull and I'm not convinced that his film had anything in particular to say in any capacity (that is not on a personal, political or social level).

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the "bland" and "boring" comments, as this is the most subjective point of our arguments. But I think the main set piece of the film (the oil derrick bursting leading the the injury of the son) fell flat mainly because it followed the exact same format of the locust swarm in days of heaven (cut to black silhouettes over red firey back grounds). It felt phony, and anemic.

I never implied that you did personally call this film a masterpiece, but It should be noted that this film is ridiculously overpraised (and if you didn't call the film a masterpiece you should give me this point, as that is what most reviews are saying), and that I simply found it peculiar that defenses in its favor are still pouring in. That being said, your arguments are the most interesting I've read. I respect your appreciation of it in a certain sense, but I'm simply not convinced that this film warrants this kind of wide spread appraisal.

I'm Not There, Inland Empire, I Heart Huckabees, Gerry, Elephant, Aqua Teen Hunger Force the movie and even films like death proof and zodiac to name a few we're all recent commercial films that included an intense amount of experimentation, much more to my eyes than anything in There Will Be Blood (whether good or bad), and while these films may not be in the strict Rivette sense of the word, I think it is slightly dutiful to say "who's doing that", as if Anderson is embarking on some fearless cinematic quest for different cinematic ideas. I don't think the field for unique experimentation in American films is as narrow as you seem to be implying.
ZS
February 2nd - 3:05 a.m.
I too fall in the minority of finding There Will Be Blood totally over praised. I can’t say I see anything experimental about it either, except perhaps the score, which is quite dissonant for a studio film. It didn’t bore me at all, but as a look at the oil industry, religion, American frontier capitalism, fathers and “sons” or any other themes it incorporates, it struck as hollow and obvious. On the level of style alone, it too struck me as made up from other, better films. That said, I don’t think the fact that PTA steals from better works is necessary a problem—the problem is the film doesn’t convey any real insight into its subject matter while stealing.

Also, did J.R Jones really say Little Buddha and Stealing Beauty are better than 99% of things out there? Wow. That's even worse than four stars for Atonment.
J.R. Jones
February 2nd - 7:47 a.m.
According to the Internet Movie Database, STEALING BEAUTY was one of 9,355 movies released in 1996. I await your list of the 93 movies that were superior.

I've already had my say on ATONEMENT, and my enthusiasm for it is undiminished, so I'll let your cheap shot pass.
Dale Wittig
February 2nd - 12:46 p.m.
There are few things as rewarding as arguing with a argumentative student. The argument could go on forever. Regarding the so-called lack of character developement in There Will Be Blood, I would like to point to a scene very late in the film, where Plainview confronts his adopted son. It's what David Lynch would call "the eye of the duck." The scene corresponds to the one in Barry Lyndon where Barry choses not to kill his step-son in a duel. In Anderson's scene the father is releasing the boy from any further ties with himself. In both scenes the old man allows the younger one to live. There is considerable depth and ambiguity in the motivations of these characters as they're presented by Kubrick and Anderson. I wouls say that it is something Anderson learned from watching Kubrick's films. Shouldn't younger filmakers learn from watching the works of their masters? Didn't Kubrick learn by watching Dreyer's films? I think a better example to the point Pat Graham was making regarding Rivette's Joan the Maid would be in Dreyer's Ordet. Thanks, as always.
ZS
February 2nd - 1:23 p.m.
oh I have no doubt that looking through imdb I could find 93 better films than Stealing Beauty released in 1996, but that's not what you said the first time.
J.R. Jones
February 2nd - 3:27 p.m.
I suspect that if you actually tried to do that, you’d find yourself in pretty choppy water after 50 or 60 titles. IMDB lists 16,000 movies released last year, which would make the top 100th percentile 160 movies. A quick scan of the top 160 in the recent Indiewire poll finds such classics as NORBIT, HOSTEL PART II, and I NOW PRONOUNCE YOU CHUCK AND LARRY.

Of course, we’re never going to settle an argument involving numeration of subjective choices. But I think my point is quite sound: the reservoir of cinematic garbage is so vast that even Bertolucci’s worst movie would rank near the top.
Kifah
February 2nd - 4:26 p.m.
The Barry Lyndon comparison is quite valid, and I didn't really think about that till now, but seriously, Is Plainview a character with a tenth of Barry Lyndon's depth? Barry Lyndon is a character that slowly evolves over the course of three hours and he goes through some dramatic changes while doing so, only his motivations are left to the audience to infer (but his motivations are definitely there). Is Plainview really a Barry Lyndon? Plainview is a man who's misanthropy is quite one dimensional, and it only builds as his success builds (how enlightening). I didn't see Plainview's "eye of the duck" moment as one where he lets his son off the hook. It seems as if he was just casting him out of his life. The context of comparison that lies in actually killing someone is not quite there in There Will Be Blood, because there is no dueling. Plainview in a way is killing his son, because he's cutting him off financially.

On a side note, I would much rather watch Stealing Beauty or any of the so-called "worst" Bertollucci films than watch "Atonement" or "Juno" or any of the other manufactured "indie" films of today that get plastered on 1500 hundred screens.
Josh K.
February 2nd - 9:48 p.m.
Really, Kifah? You didn't think about the Barry Lyndon comparison until "now," meaning, I guess, the moment you wrote that sentence? Considering Pat G. made the comparison in the first third of the post you've commented on several times already?
Dale Wittig
February 3rd - 2:29 a.m.
I did not mean to suggest that There Will Be Blood is a masterpiece on the level of Barry Lyndon, but on seeing it I was immediately struck by Kubrick's influence on it and was happy to see Pat Graham's elucidation of that influence. For me, a film is a masterpiece only after many viewings, its richness emerging through years of contemplation and discussion. My point regarding the scene in Anderson's film where Plainview breaks off ties with his adopted son is that what he appears to be doing and what he is actually doing are two different things. I would say that perhaps Plainview recognizes that his son is better off without him and that he is himself at last free to settle his score with his other surrogate son, young Mr. Sunday. So, yes, I would say he is releasing his son, recognizing that he himself is deadly. I hesitate to set any ultimate value on Anderson's film. I've only seen it once. I definately respect the seriousness of his work.
Thanks for your indulgence.
Kifah
February 3rd - 2:49 a.m.
what else would "now" mean? exactly. No, I didn't think about it because it wasn't laid out strongly enough earlier, in fact its mentioned only once. do you have a problem with that?
Kifah Foutah
February 3rd - 2:53 a.m.
I hear what you're saying, Dale. Thats an interesting interpretation and I'll definitely think on it.
Kfoutah
February 3rd - 3:10 a.m.
My bad, twice actually. And My opening comments weren't a direct engagement with Graham's comments either (that came later, when the focus became Joan The Maid not Barry Lyndon), I was merely pontificating on why I didn't like the film and carping about the excess amount of articles being written about it. Regardless, why the attitude? Have I offended you personally?
Pat G.
February 4th - 7:34 p.m.
Kifah - "Why the attitude"? (Nobody ever asked Martin Luther THAT question) ho hum diddley doo. *Not that I'm ADVOCATING the questioning of one to take OFFENSE (again is this REALLY the POINT of the CRITIC to deal with such *issues*?) but this is OFF TOPIC but then again, what would be ON topic? Huzzah!
pat g.
February 4th - 8:48 p.m.
bad impersonation in preceding comment, from someone who needs to study his/her satirical targets more carefully * could make a nice continuing thread though ...

it's also a good time to revisit andrew sarris's closing quote in my january 18 post:

"First you see something, and you like it, and then it's a mystery, and you go into the mystery—-and that's what's interesting. And the test of criticism is: can you make a case for it"

which pretty well sums up my own approach to anderson, the ENIGMA of his films generally--since yes, i'm still puzzled by BLOOD, it doesn't yield transparency at all * but who needs "great, "masterpiece," etc, if you're able to get down to this? * and isn't it a test of criticism to drop the superlatives and simply DESCRIBE what you see, as closely and investedly as you can, that fabric of (sometimes free) associations--imagine, all these things a single movie's good for! ... * as DALE WITTIG's comment suggests, "great," etc, all that preemptive privileging, ultimately takes care of itself * meanwhile, lots of burrowing work to do!
kifah
February 5th - 1:46 a.m.
I definitely see what you're saying. I guess at the end of the day I don't find his films interesting enough as cinema to get into them, and I just don't find them mysterious enough to admire them. Not that I hate him in principle per say. I think Hard Eight is a very good film, And I at least find moments of Boogie Nights, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love funny, if nothing else. It seems that Anderson's strong points (as I see them) are better suited for projects of smaller scale and ambition. The things in his movies that I generally enjoy I definitely found lacking, but even if it wasn't I doubt I'd respect the movie any more. I find him pretentious but at the same time this has hurled at any number of my favorite filmmakers, so to each his own.
ZS
February 6th - 2:55 a.m.
Slightly off topic. I finally caught up with The Assassination of Jesse James. I thought it was brilliant and far more interesting than There Will Be Blood.
pat g.
February 6th - 10:35 a.m.
ZS--now there's one i don't understand at all, eyes glazing over, etc ... chacun a son gout, i guess
ZS
February 6th - 4:59 p.m.
Well, I think for one thing it is far more intelligent about how American myths are made, and how film images (since the film openly declares its own artifice)help construct those myths.

I find the character of Bob Ford far more interesting than Planview. Planview is really just the cliche of the self-made capitalist American male who makes history by forcing his will into things. Bob Ford, on the other hand, can't really find a way to exert his own will. Even through killing Jesse James he doesn't achieve any individuality.

In that regard, Jesse James reminded much more of Barry Lyndon than There Will Be Blood: its characters can never escape from history, myth, and as their status as images in a film frame. I think There Will Be Blood tries to hard to make allegory out of its limited understanding of American history and frontier capitalism. To disagree with a point raised earlier, this film really is just transparent.
pat g.
February 6th - 7:36 p.m.
ZS--unfortunately, films do more than illustrate theses, and insofar as ASSASSINATION serves up a character who "can't ... find a way to exert his own will" whereas BLOOD does the opposite, i'm probably not interested in either * but do consider i've spent the better part of the post arguing AGAINST the kind of one-to-one reading you support, as if upton sinclair's wheezy hectoring somehow represented the film's point of view (rather than anderson's "tightrope" distance from it, half in the mind-set, half out) * since if the primary "voice" isn't the filmmaker's but the original author's, what happens to "transparency" then? * muddier and muddier, i think ...

which is why i dragged in BARRY LYNDON and rivette, as examples of distancing strategies in action--a point i've already admitted to stretching a bit * and still the point needs making, since if not, why bother with this half-forgotten, out-of-date material at all?
ZS
February 6th - 8:28 p.m.
You don't think There Will Be Blood was made, in part, to respond to the current political climate in the US?

I think the question that is nagging you is correct. Why bother with the material that is frankly out of date? There is nothing in the film that leads me to believe that it isn't a generic political critique dressed up with some film-school tricks, none of which are that distancing anyway, at least any that are comparable to what Barry Lyndon does where literally the camera zooms out to distance us from Barry.

And the point about will isn't about a one-to one- reading exactly. It's about how the films use their characters as history. Plainview seems an utterly conventional character, both in his psychology and in Lewis performance, in which case it is There Will Be Blood that is offering a one to one relationship between history and character will much more than either The Assassination of Jesse James or Barry Lyndon.
pat g.
February 7th - 2:15 p.m.
ZS--couple random thoughts: look how paul dano's face is used, beginning with the extended take in profile early on, where you get the high, blank forehead, the receding jaw that regathers itself in the small jut of a chin, etc * and later the shots full-on, that give you a big, improbable moon as contrast to the angularity * you're meant to NOTICE these things, the length of the shots tells you as much, and their effects don't fit the allegorical model you're after ... except maybe they do, but in unanticipated ways * since within the historical frame of the source novel, the idea of physiognomy as key to character (see, e.g., william rimmer's notorious artists' anatomy text) was still very much vogue, and a face like dano's--especially in profile--would've set cultural alarm bells ringing: not an "evolved"/intelligent anglo type, more subhuman actually, like the immigrant irish, etc * it's dano's face/presence that's one of anderson's little opacities, in the way it strikes a balance, mentality-wise, between now and then: why this actor, so physiologically unconventional for a contemporary "mainstream" movie role? * are we channeling obsolescence or what?

also the shooting style, the way scenes incrementally evolve, which already i've alluded to in the post--e.g., buckboard traveling in long shot, then ever so gradually a townscape creeping in from the right, building by clapboard building * the conventional way of doing this usually involves several edits: medium shot of wagon, close-up of driver, approach to town from driver's-seat perspective, etc * partly it's straight stroheim classicism anderson's giving--e.g., the distance of the figures vis-a-vis their determinist/naturalistic context--partly an allusion to frontier photos of the 1890s, from colorado mining camps, etc * but all of it eschews the way commercial films are typically shot today * so: are we channeling again or not?

as for day-lewis: a big, barnstorming presence that's more about virtuosity and color, an extravagant connotative pastiche, than anything so literal as you're describing--all of which is perfectly fine by me ...
tony paley
February 7th - 3:16 p.m.
Over here in Britain this film is getting rave reviews. Time Out London and Derek Malcolm in London's Evening Standard (both influential) have hailed it as a masterpiece and that's before my paper's Film & Music section (The Guardian) hits the streets tomorrow. There's been a buzz about this film since the autumn. The point I want to make is: why was this film not considered interesting enough for a long review? I was looking forward to an extended discussion of the film's merits — surely it must be one of the films, no matter how good or bad, that your readership will want to see this year.
Kifah Foutah
February 7th - 8:44 p.m.
"since within the historical frame of the source novel, the idea of physiognomy as key to character (see, e.g., william rimmer's notorious artists' anatomy text) was still very much vogue, and a face like dano's--especially in profile--would've set cultural alarm bells ringing: not an "evolved"/intelligent anglo type, more subhuman actually, like the immigrant irish, etc * it's dano's face/presence that's one of anderson's little opacities, in the way it strikes a balance, mentality-wise, between now and then: why this actor, so physiologically unconventional for a contemporary "mainstream" movie role? * are we channeling obsolescence or what? "

Given that are not so humble director is on the record as saying that he "is a bad reader" and "can't remember the things I read" I find it highly unlikely that he would be taking matters of physiognomy in relation to history into account. A close examination of "Oil" I think more than illustrates that Anderson merely used the book for practical oil lingo and setting purposes only and that he used the backdrop to interject his lame daddy issues riddled story line into it.

Also could the same thing be said of Paul Dano's appearance in Little Miss Sunshine? or his layout in GQ this past month? Why don't we just jerk off everyone who uses Paul Dano's face in mainstream outlets since its so "unconventional".

Also I would add, at least in terms of how he films close ups, they're done in the same way he's done them in all of his films (which is rather hideous to look at to my eyes). He merely aims the camera down slightly cutting off the subjects forehead leaving the chin in the middle of the frame, with more empty space surrounding it than anyone would care to look at. I find nothing particular about that.

In more also- "a face like dano's--especially in profile--would've set cultural alarm bells ringing: not an "evolved"/intelligent anglo type, more subhuman actually, like the immigrant irish, etc *

Lets say thats true. Does Anderson make any real attempt to explore how these cultural alarm bells are set off? is there any galvanization between Dano and the citizens of the town? I'd say not.
Kfoutah
February 7th - 8:47 p.m.
Correction *our not so humble director, and "in more also"? scratch the first two words. jeez.
tony paley
February 8th - 5:14 a.m.
I don't take particular notice of reviewers here in the genertal newspapers apart from Jonathan Romney in the Independent on Sunday. My first port of call is your newspaper. But The Guardian has given There Will Be Blood maximum stars. So has The Independent. This film is going to be the most talked-about film of the year. I ask again — why no long review for this movie?
pat g.
February 8th - 10:34 a.m.
KIFAH--re "Why don't we just jerk off everyone who uses Paul Dano's face in mainstream outlets since its so unconventional" ...

because no one else is using the face (actually, STUDYING it's more the case here) in remotely similar ways

"Does Anderson make any real attempt to explore how these cultural alarm bells are set off?"

obviously no, since it's intended (assuming, of course, there's anything to intend!) to work connotatively, as a subliminal resonance, not something you'd ever address directly--how, e.g., david lynch uses laura dern ... though plz note: i'm NOT now saying that anderson's impersonating lynch!
pat g.
February 8th - 10:47 a.m.
TONY--not the one to ask since i don't do long (ho-ho), though perhaps the hint of an answer is in the READER's capsule summary: just click on the link in the post--the problem starts to reveal itself there ...
Kifah Foutah
February 8th - 6:36 p.m.
I'm calling shenanigans on that right now. Next thing you know you'll be saying that Lawrence Fishburne is adding subliminal resonance of Frederick Douglas in Higher Learning.....or is that George Clooney sending off alarm bells of black Irish immigrant assimilation in Attack Of the Killer Tomatoes?
pat g.
February 8th - 7:07 p.m.
KIFAH--except i won't, because i don't think those things--to invoke sarris again, we make our arguments and hope that the case stands up ...
Kifah Foutah
February 11th - 1:01 a.m.
Watch Higher Learning again. That interpretation is just as valid as anything you've laid out, but alas I don't think it makes the movie(s) any better. Create criticisms are fun to read, but seldom do they actually illuminate much of anything (particularly in movies that aren't that great to begin with).

Which ultimately is my big point. If you are still maintaining that the film is no masterpiece, than is it worth the energy writing about it as if it was? (which, like it or not, you are doing).
pat g.
February 14th - 3:31 p.m.
KIFAH--don't know about making the movies any "better" but these kinds of considerations obviously affect how we see them--make the experience a bit more resonant and fuller than otherwise * and i've gone on about BLOOD not because it's a "masterpiece" (see my response to DALE WITTIG's comment above) but for associations elicited, questions raised, "creative" riddles implied * which inevitably contribute to any definition of "great," "masterpiece," etc, we might invent--except all of that stuff's still a good way down the road * but if certain suggestions/associations do eventually catch on, become part of the standard discourse, you might say they've developed "legs" ... as of course would be true of the movie itself
Kifah Foutah
February 15th - 3:07 a.m.
If this movie truly develops "Legs", it'll certainly be running the relay race in the cinematic special Olympics.
brian
February 19th - 8:32 p.m.
afraid i'm with kifah and the haters, pat. dano's preacher character in "there will be blood" as written and played and shot is a complete failure, dooming the film. one reason why "assassination" is better.
pat g.
February 20th - 1:08 p.m.
BRIAN--finally, a straight man to feed me the line i've been waiting for! ... since if you see p.t. anderson's manipulation of actors the way i do--like a semisadistic swimming instructor in high school who throws you into the pool and watches you flail around a bit, gasping for buoyancy and air, the ultimate example of learning by doing--dano's coarse, frantic, in-over-his-head ingenuousness is actually the BEST thing in the movie: "here's your character, now play it!" ... with no help at all from the controlling maestro * so out come all the stops, willy-nilly, with dano exploiting every actor's trick he knows (as well as some he doesn't)--like poor emily watson in PUNCH-DRUNK LOVE, stuck with having to love the congenitally unlovable sandler ... her ultimate failure the movie's ultimate success * arguably dano contra day-lewis does something like that: all that polished versatility, that technical intelligence, against this sputtering supernova of a performer who hasn't the slightest clue * spontaneity without the safety net: at least part of the movie's genius ...

incidentally: kubrick tried the same kind of trick at least twice, in BARRY LYNDON and EYES WIDE SHUT (jury's still out on THE SHINING), with swirling theatrical bravura surrounding a gaping black hole at the center, the main formal/aesthetic dynamic in both * saved by ineptitude, especially in cruise's case--i'd argue something similar's at work in BLOOD
brian
February 20th - 6:40 p.m.
supernova? ahem. he's a white dwarf at best. and the intentionality you're assigning to Anderson doesn't really match up with the recasting of the role referenced upthread. or address that he's written just as poorly as he's played. i know and approve the strategy you're talking about, it's indeed what makes eyes wide shut secretly awesome, but i think you're reading it in here.
homo superior
February 22nd - 5:29 p.m.
I live in hope that the experience of watching a film, and that of making one, is, oh, about a billion times more interesting, rewarding, enduring, satisfying than the criticism I've just waded through here.

Good night, all, I think I'll go masturbate. No, really, masturbate, with consummation and closure and all that. I might even have some helop. That's more than any of you will find here.
homo superior
February 22nd - 5:31 p.m.
HELP even. Sorry, full of Czech beer. I will now watch some Battlestar Galactica pirated from the Internets. Goddess bless 'em.
homo superior
February 22nd - 6:02 p.m.
JRJ: Thanks for pointing out the difference between "crappy" and "less crappy." Perhaps in _someone's_ life that means something. I really don't want to imagine that life, however. And somehow I don't think you have that life, either.

But really: I'm given a choice of watching Road Trip again, or The Dreamers. RT makes me smile; TD makes me think Berto really wishes Michael Pitt's dick were hard in those shots, but he's too much of a closeted homo[phobe] to admit it. Berto's been getting fucked up the ass and refusing to come since at least Last Tango (I stole that) and sorry, I'd rather come. Guess I've made my choices.

And Pat, as much as I love your contrarian, endlessly inventive criticism, your prose sucks, and not in a good way. Go study Orwell, fer fuck's sake.

On second thought, I don't need BSG, I need Female Trouble.

Don't we all?

pat g.
February 22nd - 6:51 p.m.
HOMO S.--o come onnnnnnnn! ... and what czech beer was that?



On Film Blogroll

©1996-2008 Creative Loafing Media All Rights Reserved.   We welcome your comments and suggestions.